What remains is "Am" | Self-Inquiry taken to the end (Satsang) [public version]

NWho am I? That is the question you have to resolve for yourself. But you soon realize that "who" is a pointless question. The mind can only answer "Who?" with names. So you cancel out the "who".

And then you find that "I" cannot be found as a thing in the world. There's nothing in the mind you can identify as, "This is what is conscious." So I cannot be found. So then if you put aside the "who" and the "I", what's left is "Am."

Am. And so it's no longer a question. It was just pointing you to the fact. It's very basic: Am.

Because when the mind is spent, having understood it can't answer who or I, then that is done. Then the mind is emptied. And the "Am" is in the heart. Am — you can feel it. It's known. Am. And then with that, you just stay with that. And then if you look at misery, or life, the ups and downs, and so on — if you look at that, yes, that's what you see.

In this life, in any other life. But this question is turning your gaze in another direction. All misery is transient. But You are the Absolute.

Absolute. Because all that is relative. But what this "Am" establishes is very undeniable. This is the fact: Am — Present. Aware. Real. So if you can see that this cannot be possessed by anyone or anything but is the very essence of what anything or anyone is. Because "who" is just names.

"I" cannot be found. This is what anyone or anything actually is. Then who knows that? The one who knows the "Am" is the Absolute. You are the Absolute.

It is said in that way so You can finally see beyond the personal individual "I", to the actual I, which came to know life. Which came to know experience. You go back to That. That is the actual I. All right, let's go into Q&A. Yes, Michael.

QThe "Am." Where does compassion come in? The "Am"... I feel like I understand that, but then I'm feeling like, well, I wouldn't have any compassion. Where does the compassion... the dog with the three broken legs, or another person... how can I be at peace with that?

NWhen there's no individual "I," the "Am" — compassion is in recognizing that it's the same thing happening there. The question of "am I the only one" — that's all done, because you're not taking this to just be for myself. This is the nature of what anything is, the experiencing. The compassion comes from recognizing what the Self is.

So when you see that dog, you don't see the dog, you see from inside what the dog is. You don't need to have the actual experiences, when you know what the Self is. And you call it, in one of the videos... what is it? Freedom from suffering. Release from suffering.

QAnd again, it's the individual "I" looking at that. And if I see myself as the dog... where's the dog's comfort? I'm sorry, you cut out there. I'm thinking of it again from the individual "I," and I can accept that. But then I'm thinking, well, where is the comfort in the "I Am" for the dog?

NMhm. Can the dog find that comfort in the "I Am"? So, okay. So look, why is misery misery?

Because it's not the Natural State. You're miserable because you know this is not the way to be, and the dog knows it too. Why does the dog know it? Who knows that is not the dog, but the actual Self.

The "dog" is the world, the experience, the pain, the hunger, or whatever. The dog, the world, who is experiencing that... that is the Self. The Self who knows misery, because that is not the Natural State. You know something is worse or better from a baseline.

And that's why I'm saying, if you look at the misery in this life, any other life, what you see is the misery. Yes, I'm not denying that. That is most experiences... misery. And there are some tiny points in life which make it maybe worth living.

But we're not looking at that. What inquiry does is turn you inwards. Who is suffering in any world, any life?

And the End of Suffering is realizing that, oh, it wasn't a little dog suffering. This suffering, it appears within the Absolute. And in the Natural State of the Absolute, there's no suffering, there's no experience. Experience comes and goes, but the Absolute just is.

And it's not neutral. It's like... because we keep looking at the peaks and the troughs. But it's in the middle, something which you cannot call boring, because boredom itself is a valley. When you wake up in the morning and you don't want to get out of bed, what are you feeling?

You don't need anything. You don't even want experience. That is close to what it's like. Absolute is Peace. There's no need, no desire, nothing to do, nothing to want.

And then experience appears, and that can pull you in one direction or the other. And that's why you can experience misery and joy. But what inquiry, meditation, all this you do, is the baseline. What is it? Is it neutral? Is it bad?

And you find, no, actually, when my mind is empty and I'm only at this "Am," everything is perfect. So then to answer your specific question, even if you think of it as the dog, does the dog experience the "Am"? Yes. So if it is not hungry and not in need, then it feels it, but who feels it?

It's not an "it" that feels it. The Absolute resolves into the Natural State.

QMy Inner Guru knows you're right, but I don't have the gyan yet. So my fear is to become non-compassionate, with acceptance, without really the knowledge of it, really, you know, but I know you're right.

NYeah, the result of all this is not to just walk by and ignore the misery of others, because now you know what they are. So it just resolves itself. The result is not that you become a stone or something.

QThank you.

NRachel.

QHi, Nabeel. Once we have a body, this body will work as it needs to, function as it needs to. The one thing that the stream of thought has helped me understand, by simply observing it, is that human conditioning is always about putting a negative spin on what we don't want. So isn't it the wanting, the desire, which creates how we label our experiences? Isn't it just that? And so it is just the thinking?

NNo, no. Desire... it comes much deeper than that. Of course, there are levels to it. There's the hunger, which is not dependent on thinking.

There's the base needs of the body, which you also experience as desire. But as the mind gets more complex, then yes, with thinking you have all kinds of more complex desires. And the way to see through them is quite simple. Again... it's what I try to teach my daughter, but you know, it takes a lifetime to get it.

When you desire something, when you eventually get it, what makes you actually happy is the end of that desire. Because the next day, what she wanted, she's forgotten. She now has it. But until she had it, the desire was eating at her. And that's how it works.

It eats at you, gnaws at you, until you get it. And then the peace you experience is just the end of the desire, not that you got something new. You might enjoy it for a while, okay? If it's a nice flashy car, you might enjoy it for a while. But then another desire emerges. So it's like a bottomless pit.

And now you have to protect the car, and so on and so forth. So each desire feeds the new desire.

QThere is something... I was listening to one of Nisargadatta's talks, and in the reading, the phrase "Consciousness is atomic" was expressed, and I was wondering if you could speak to that.

NSo what he means is different to how... There's this belief, I don't know if you've heard it, in philosophy it's called panpsychism, that every atom might be itself conscious and so on.

But that's not what he means. He means, because he always talks from what he directly observed, when he observed Consciousness appear, it is like an atom, like the first atom of creation, "I am." And then the whole world appears. So he has seen through this very carefully, very directly, and he is describing this as the atom of creation.

To him, everything starts with knowledge. Knowledge and ignorance, to him, come together. And the Parabrahman, it's prior to knowledge, prior to experience.

So the beginning of knowledge is this atom, "I am," or just "Am," because what's "I"? Then the world appears, and everything in it.

QOh, that's fabulous. Thank you so much. That makes sense.

That makes sense too, because I was looking at it from chemistry. So what I learned in chemistry, and I didn't understand it... He talks about that too, but then he talks about it like just with the food bodies and so on.

NThen he clearly talked about all that as not being conscious. That Awareness only applies to the Absolute, and all else, it's just the appearances.

QThank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.

NNeil.

QHi. Hi there.

Getting back to what you were talking about at the very beginning... I do love to... I've got a habit of watching your videos, reading stuff, and looking at other people's stuff on YouTube, etc. And I've got... there's almost like a momentum that I've gathered over the years, and it's become a habit. And I must say that there's a part of me that enjoys it.

But when it comes to the Awareness... you saying that the Awareness is inside, being there... Some of the stuff that I've read, and I kind of get the angle, is that the seeking and the gaining of knowledge and the looking is actually counterproductive. It can have a counterproductive effect, because it's like... you know Awareness, you know that you are Awareness, you know that you're there. And that habit of... it's almost like the actual gaining of this information is actually stopping you being there.

It's putting a gap between you and the Awareness. And so there's... Maybe... is there a point, or do you think there is a point, where you go, "Right, I'm just not going to do that anymore. I'm not going to keep looking this stuff up. I'm going to stop looking for different people to listen to. I'm going to stop that and just be there." You know, just be in the Awareness, because, as I'm finding more and more... it's like you run out.

It is an answer. It's not anything in itself, but there it is. There's the I Am. There's the portal. There's the door you go through. And there it is. There it is. And there's the answer. And it's just... the more concepts and ideas, even if they're brilliant ideas... because a lot of them are. Some of the stuff, I mean your videos are just gorgeous. They're wonderful. And the books, that stuff is just glorious.

But is it possible that even those wonderful things are getting in my way? Is it... you see?

NYeah. So I can tell you from my experience what happens is you naturally lose interest when the job is done. You just lose interest because it's just... yes, it's true, it's true.

You might continue listening for a while and you say, yes, it's true, it's true. And then the interest drops because it's just... it's just beautiful ways of saying what you now know, and sometimes boring, redundant ways of saying what you now know. So I could still go back and read Nisargadatta and enjoy it. But I was reading it every day, all his dialogues on repeat.

And then finally the interest dropped. It just happened. I didn't have to fight that, like, "oh, I should give this up." It just happens.

And if it continues for a while, that's fine too. It's just ways we have to spend time now because it's still the experience of time. So you've got to do something with your life. Depends, you can do whatever, it's a hobby.

But it's no longer a search. The search is... if there's still a search, it's the "who" part that the mind's revolving around, and you just see through that. Well, how could the mind ever explain this better than the "I Am"? Names and concepts, and then describe concepts with other concepts, use poetry and all that, but the answer is simple.

And yes, we revert to the mean. You know, the peaks and the lows, they don't appeal so much. You're not chasing them, or you're not running away. And you see what's there, like what's at the end of a desire is always there.

If you just give up the desire. And so, as you are more in tune with that, then all the rest will drop off.

QDo you think it's maybe what you're alluding to is that the thirst, the drive that's been there all these years, will just kind of dissipate?

I can't imagine I would ever not want to watch one of your videos, whatever, because they're great. They're just lovely things to watch. I think I will still probably always read some stuff just because... I think Nisargadatta described something as entertainment. Yeah, sometimes he'd talk about these meetings or satsangs as entertainment. And I guess I always want a certain amount of... I like a bit of entertainment.

So it's not like you turn into a cabbage, you know.

NYeah. And they're still entertainment.

QYeah, still like a bit of entertainment.

NYeah, but there are people you see, like on my channel itself, I'll see they'll be watching a lot of videos, leaving comments, and eventually they'll drop off and be gone.

And I know the message got through just from their comments. Or someone will see, "Oh, I don't want to hear the music version." And then later they say, "Oh, the music is so good." That's when they're just looking at it as entertainment.

It's fine. When you're trying to focus, you don't want the music. It's just entertainment. It's just beauty... expressing what we see in the world, in life.

QYes. Thank you for that.

NThank you. Thank you, Razi.

QCouple of quick feedback, if I could. Lately I've just been doing simple meditation, just watching the awareness of breath, kind of like the Vipassana style, the Anapana, just something simple.

But somehow just doing that, I noticed just like a shift in attention to just... I don't know how to say it, but it just... something happened. It's like the mind just kind of slows down, or I don't know, stops. But then somehow it's like I'm gone.

And it's like I wake up and I'm like, did I just take a nap or was I dozing off? And I don't know the difference. It's happened a few times. So I just wanted to get your quick feedback on that.

It's been very helpful to me, but I also see a resistance to just sitting and just doing this very simple, no inquiry thing. A part of me still wants to do inquiry and all that, but I'm like, let's just go back to basics and just not do anything, just watch the breath. So that's one thing. The other thing... I just literally right before the call, I saw what you talked about, and that came up right after.

I'm like, yeah, so what? All these teachings that I see... but there's still suffering still here. And I get these glimpses of just a no-mind state, where I kind of know there's a knowing that... I still can't say I know who I am, but I know I'm not... it's more like I now know for sure I'm not the thinking character. Okay, like it's pretty clear.

But having said that, there's still... like you talked about your daughter... I have a desire, like I still get triggered with my wife a lot. And it's very puzzling to me because it didn't use to be that case. Like just recently it was like this desire, like "I wish she wouldn't do that" or "I wish she would do that" or "I wish you'd stop doing that." And it's like gnawing at me, you know, like it won't let me rest.

And I see this blame, like "because of her I'm not calm" or "because of her I'm not able to focus." And I started noticing, like, is that really true? Is it because of her I can't be who I am, or I can't do what I want to do? Is that true?

And I sat with that, and I just saw this machinery in the mind, sort of... producing these thoughts, and this tension, and feeling bad and upset and angry, this sort of machinery. And I could see it's not me, but it was sort of pulling at me right away. There wasn't just complete stillness. It was like a distraction, like "okay, we need to break something, we need to do something, we need to go for a walk, we need to drink a soda."

And that is still very strong. So I still wasn't able to come to a baseline of stillness and know I'm not that, even though I kind of know I'm not that. It's still happening quite a bit. And when you talked earlier about the dog, like no separation... I'm still not able to see that.

I'm still seeing her separate, or the mind... I could see there's a thought that's saying "she's doing this," but still I'm seeing her as separate from me. And there's a very strong identification with the thought, seeing her as separate from me, and desire for her to just listen to me or do what I say. All of these things, it's like this belief, like "why doesn't she just do what I ask her to do? God damn it, life would just be so much easier." And it's just not happening.

It's just not happening. But then I'm like, why am I upset? Like you were saying, then part of me is like, I just surrender.

NYeah, that's the trick. Just surrender. Like, forget wanting anything.

QThen I'm like, "she's disrespecting me, should I just let her?" Then these thoughts keep coming. There's like no relief.

I'm like, "okay, I'll just surrender," but the surrender doesn't last too long. Then this other stuff comes up. So yeah, I just... and then it was like, so what? Then I saw the "so what."

I'm like, yes, so what? Suffering is still there, but there's still noticing. It's like I'm right at the edge. Like I'm not suffering, but the suffering is there... but who is the one suffering?

And then, underneath that, there's still this... like right now if I just... Yeah, like all the stuff that I said is just kind of gone. Sounds weird, but it's kind of gone, like there's no problem.

NRight. Let's start at the beginning.

QYeah, please. There's many things to... I know.

I just want... sorry, I just wanted to put it out there. You don't have to address everything, but I just wanted to.

NNo no... So the first part, the simple meditation on the breath one. So it's often about what comes first. Should you meditate or should you understand? I don't know, but in the end, once you've heard this stuff, even just in passing, a line from a true sage, and then you meditate, without...

Just simple, just focusing on the breath, when the mind empties in whatever way, the Knowledge sinks in. It's just there. It's because it's just pointing out something very straightforward, something that's true, which is always true. And so the simple breath counting can make it... it's different than how it was in the beginning, when we started meditating, when you breath count and you go, "Oh, I'm lost in thought," go back to counting, "Oh, lost in thought."

It's no longer that. You spend so much time trying to understand that when you finally stop trying to understand, you see the Knowledge was already pointed out. And then what you described, as you go into that deeper, there's no you. You're gone.

"Was I sleeping?" You come back. "Was I... where did I go?" Time stops. One of my friends also described it exactly like that, a longtime meditator who finally... This was his experience too, like, "Oh, it's just like staring into nothing. And then there's nothing. And then you're back."

So, look at that. What did that just prove about you, and about your wife, and anyone else? It's just a cloud of thinking and emotions and feelings and seeing and hearing and all that. There's just a cloud. But what is... who is I? What am I? When there's nothing, and then something appears, what are you then?

That is what you are. When everything else appears too... You are not changing. The thoughts appearing, the feelings appearing, and all that. That is called Awareness. Just pure Awareness, even in the absence of experience.

That is I. You know, an experience is present, that is I, and we realize that. Stay with that. And then all this thinking about, "Oh, I got triggered, she triggered me, or I triggered her," and whatnot — what's that about?

That's not about I, and it's not about what she is. Yeah, you see the drama of it, like, "Oh, what's this all about?" It's all about imaginary stuff. How can it hook you in the same way?

See what this is showing you. This is the demonstration. This is what I often point out — watch experience disappear and appear. What were you then? Did you cease to exist? No.

In one way, yes. In one way, yes, all of that, what you take to be Reality, ceased to exist. But you don't feel that you died and came back. There's no discontinuity for you. Time can stop and come back — there's discontinuity in time.

But in terms of your own existence, nothing happens. So being reduced to nothing does not eliminate what "I" means. And you have to then apply this to anyone, even people you dislike, you know, politicians and all that. What is actually going on there? It's again just a cloud of thinking and so on.

So yeah, there's nice fluffy clouds, and there's stormy clouds and so on, but you look at the eye of the storm. Yeah, that's what the baseline is — just being very sure, very certain what is meant by I. And when the mind is disturbing, it's just a simple one single thread to pull on — Who, what, who are we talking about? — and return to that.

QSo in that, let's say, dark clouds or in that storm, this mental activity storm right now — it's taking this particular shape.

Next week it could take another shape, politician or whatever it might be. So right now she's my teacher, or this experience is my teacher, so to speak. And I'm having a hard time in that moment to grab that thread and to remember who I am, even though there's an inkling or intuition of it. But still, there's a pull... I couldn't say I am getting pulled, but there's attention that gets still pulled into that thing.

And in that moment, I hate to say "how do I," because that assumption isn't true, but I can't pretend either.

NYes. So it's — give up depending on memory for this. Okay, we're not trying to remember.

There is a part where you have to be very, I don't know, determined — like you build your own anchor. But the anchor is... it's always there. So it does not require memory. It does not require the kind of thinking to change.

So even as the anger is appearing, you see that there's two directions to look at. It's the same as what I was saying about the misery — your own anger is a misery. And when you feel you have the right to be angry and you're immersed in that, that is also misery. So there's one way where you're looking in that direction, and there's the other direction, which requires...

Yeah, it's a maneuver where you reject what's up here, go back in. For a while you do that maneuver, you can do that. But you realize you're always getting hooked into something that you've seen not to be true, not to be the true state of affairs. Who is in charge of the brain? Who's pushing the buttons? Is there a thing in there?

QI ask the same exact question. Who has the remote control of my mind? I'm like, it seems like she does. But I'm like, that's not possible. There's something inside pushing the buttons and I'm feeling terrible. I'm like, it doesn't make any sense. But I think Neil earlier talked about just trying to even understand that, because there's a part of me trying to understand that that's keeping my attention hooked in it.

Versus just right now, as I'm just connecting to you in this space, there's nothing to do. But there's an anchor here of this sort of Awareness. The attention is somehow still here. The mind doesn't have to do anything. I'm just aware. And I guess this is not to leave that, and I keep trying. I'm not going to leave, I'm not going to move from this place.

But it's the minute I start interacting with her, she asks me so many questions and so many things throughout the day, and it's just like... oh. God, [unclear], please be quiet.

NNo. No. Look, don't think I'm not going to leave this place, because the place you realize is the one you can't leave.

You can't leave. Whatever you were, you were there when the place appeared. Look at what you saw in your meditation. That is the Absolute.

QIs that what it is? I thought it was like something fancy or something else.

NHave I been describing something fancy?

QI know, sorry. My mind just likes entertainment. Sorry.

NIt doesn't... okay. Absolute means just nothing relative. There first. Yeah, nothing. Absolute is the same as Nothing to the mind.

There's no time, no space, no experience, no self. However, the Absolute is what is Aware. Because when anything appears, time and then experience and blah blah... Awareness is present first.

The Absolute is Aware. And in the Absolute we do not find separate selves. You cannot in that moment distinguish what you are from what your wife is, from what anyone else is. There's no concept of you and others.

That comes later. There's the Absolute, then there's the Am. Based on the Am, in it there can be the concept of I and others. That is the true order of how it happens.

And then immersed in the world, the mind takes this "I" concept to be true, and all the other things... And then it's going around crazy. But you should see through that. And it doesn't require memory.

Doesn't require much effort either, except it is a certain distancing yourself from your own thinking, because it's not your own thinking. It's just thinking. Just thinking. Nobody's pushing the buttons. There's no central authority in the brain.

It just gets triggered because of stimulus. And nobody can control how physics works and how chemistry works and all that. No one's in charge. So we see through the true state of affairs.

There was nobody in charge, nobody to blame. And anybody you care about, you see through to what they are. And they are trapped in their own miseries. And then this meditation stuff doesn't appeal to all minds.

So they don't even have the way to realize this. But like Michael was saying, even that dog, can it realize? Yes. Because when your mind is at peace, you're back to the baseline. Misery is caused by desire...

Like what the Buddha said, craving and aversion. Those are the two ways, and all the other stuff he describes. So you start to see ways in which you can have more harmony in life. Not by trying to teach, force-feed this stuff to everyone, but seeing them for what they are.

Seeing that, oh, they're also just being blown about by the winds of the mind. And that's where the compassion comes from. Like Michael was asking, the compassion is in seeing them for what they are, and seeing that the forces that cause misery are no one's fault. And caring for the Self... like yourself.

QWhat do you mean by caring for the self?

NCaring for the Truth. Caring only for what is true. And not being dragged around by the nonsense.

There's a place for it. There's still life to be lived and so on. But it's always this... it's not the absolute truth. It's like we talked about the view from Saturn. The view from Saturn. The Earth is just like a mote of dust.

A mote of dust. You can see your own mind like that. I can look at my own mind with compassion. You can do it in meditation. You've probably done it.

Do it in the heat of the moment. Look at your own mind with compassion.

QSo when you said "the Absolute," in that "I," there was no Consciousness of that. It was only after the fact. I was like, I didn't go to sleep. I was still sitting, but then I was not here, and it was just... it was confusion.

So how come there was not Awareness in those moments of time? And where did attention go? If I am still here, I did not cease to exist, like you said.

NSo everything you've named — that is not... that is the relative. Attention is relative. Space and time are relative. Absolute is the Absolute. Awareness does not require there to be experience. Awareness allows for experience.

But if you take away — right now, take away all the seeing, hearing, thinking, whatever — is Awareness gone? No. Because as soon as the next thought appears, or the next sight appears, it is known. Awareness is that foundation. You cannot disprove it.

You cannot say... how would you disprove? When a life begins, what allows it to begin? Awareness must be there first. The main problem is taking Awareness to belong to things, some kind of entity, which are separate.

And the view from the sage is: when there's nothing to find, you cannot say that is the thing that is aware. Even in your own mind, when everything is gone, including what you thought to be yourself, what remains is still Awareness. There's actually no qualities to Awareness, except being aware. And when there's no experience, even that quality is as if gone.

As if. That's why we can talk about unconsciousness. But what allows Consciousness to appear from unconsciousness? That is this quality, and that's what I'm saying cannot belong to anyone, cannot belong to anything or anyone, because that is what they actually are. That's the crux of the matter. That's what I actually am. I don't have to do anything to be who I am, obviously, only to recognize That.

And the recognition is always just... it's not based on memory, because it's always in the moment, through a certain kind of detachment from what you took to be your own mind. Like you're saying now, you know you're not the one thinking, thoughts are appearing and you can see how true or not true they are. And see, the expectation from all these teachings is that your whole mind will be rewired and you'll become like... have a perfect mind, happy. Perfect mind.

Actually, we just... this one thing changing in the mind, and that is the definition of "I" is given up. You don't even come up with a new definition. You just let... Just let the Truth be known by giving up the definition of "I" which was learnt and conditioned. That's all.

It does change everything, but not in the way that's expected. It doesn't stop your brain from working this way or that way and so on.

QBeautiful. Thank you. That was nice. Thanks for your patience. Thank you.

NMichael.

QI just thought I'd share so you get some feedback. I think I had a glimmer of what you're talking about. I do a lot of... I work in animal rescue, and it got to a point where every time the phone would ring, I would just cringe.

I didn't want to go out on the street because I didn't want to find another animal. But I got to that place that Razi was talking about, where it's like you turn off the channel and Michael is no longer there, but you have this Emptiness. And I saw myself... all of what I thought was compassion was actually fear. And suddenly I saw myself in that state, which I thought was Emptiness, just going over and doing what needed to be done.

The puppy, pick it up, take it to a veterinarian, do whatever, but just do what needs to be done. But without the... what I thought was compassion was all of the suffering in place, you know, projection and the fear. And if you're at that place, you just do what needs to be done, and you don't have all of this angst and emotion that doesn't serve the situation at all. But I don't know, I just... you might feel better thinking someone actually got to that place.

But thank you so much. I always thought that place of Emptiness was just not caring about anything. But it was in that Emptiness, and I thought of the situation, I thought, "Oh, I could respond. I can just step in and do what needs to be done." It was very liberating.

Thank you.

NLook, yes, what you're saying about what you realize about compassion, it's a deep insight. Even the things we consider the good things about the mind, it's still very conditioned. Empathy is a projection of what you think the animal is experiencing.

You experience some of it, but it's imagining it to compel you to do something. And that compulsion was trained through evolution and all that. Cooperation is a winning game. Yes. However...

Seeing what you're calling Emptiness from the outside, when people hear it, it sounds like a coldhearted, emotionless place. But the emotions are there. The emotions are still there. You're just seeing clearly. You're seeing your place in all this clearly. And then when you go deeper, you see the animal clearly.

Who is suffering? We want to alleviate the suffering. But look at who is suffering. Can That even suffer? Yeah, it's like the lion's being bitten by a mosquito.

Okay, let's swat away the mosquito. But there's two ways to look at the same thing. The relative way. Yes. And the absolute point of view.

And you still carry out your duties the right way, because that's already been trained. The mind's already learned. It's done.

QI want to ask you something personal. I guess, well, not even personal, but to you, from your position, what is your experience — if that is the right way you've been describing it — of the Absolute?

The language again falls flat on its face, isn't it? Because I'm listening to everybody talking, and you're talking about the Absolute. And it can seem like this ethereal thing that... we all know we can't think about it or even really talk about it. And I'm asking you, can you talk about the Absolute?

NLook, what I said is You are the Absolute. Yeah, that is the realization. You are the Absolute — the actual "I."

And then it's not a state, you know that. Like when we talk about this... That is the point, for Razi and for Michael, that is the point the Realization hits home hard because the other "I" was gone. When the other "I" is given up, the absolute "I" is obviously present. That absolute "I" does not have any persona.

Doesn't depend on memory. Doesn't even depend on the existence of experience and life — the thing you want to hold on to so dearly. Most of us are so scared of giving that up. The absolute "I" doesn't depend on it.

So the realization of the Absolute is the realization of Self. But then when we end up talking about it, it again sounds like a state, like you need to get to that point where everything was gone. It comes back, but that's just the proof. It's like a demonstration. Look, This is You.

There was no thought, there was no sight, no sound, no experience, no memory. Life was gone, as you know it. That is You. That Absolute Nothing is You.

The Void is You. The point before the Big Bang is You. All proven through the little point of waking up; in the form of the mind appearing from nothing. Because You must be there first to notice the mind.

In any moment, That's what You are. You are the Absolute. But the Absolute does not have colors of its own, emotions, feelings of its own, and so on. All that You can look at are the reflections, in a way — which is also wrong to say, because they're not reflections. They are the Absolute taking form.

The forms are the Emptiness.

QI think we've had... I've certainly asked you about it before, and I think I had a slight epiphany with the rope and the snake analogy. It comes up again and again and again. Do you think... my idea was, or the way I saw it was, that the snake that I mistake for being me is my ego, and the rope is the Awareness, is the truth, is the real me.

And it never really existed. It was just this facade, this sort of... mirage. And I don't know if I'm on the right track with that one, but it was that seeing through that ego, seeing through that character. And it's like, no, that... the truth, the Reality was always there.

The rope was always there. It was never a snake. It was always just that rope. It's always just that Awareness that's always been there forever.

This has never gone away. It's never changed. It's permanent. So, yeah.

NYeah, the rope, it's always been a rope. It's not animate. The thing that we were tussling with, it's not animate and it's not poisonous. It's just experience.

So, do you remember the video where there's a quote that one does not experience suffering? One suffers experiences, good or bad. That is the view of suffering. That's the view once you've seen the rope instead of the snake.

You're seeing the rope, and it's just the nature of experience — it can be good or bad. You are not suffering. You are the Awareness due to which experiences can appear, which can be good or bad. And there's no you to fix in that, you know.

The snake is all about trying to fix yourself, or to get rid of this and that, the mind and so on. It's just cut through by that view — that one does not experience suffering.

QOkay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

NI saw a hand raised, but it's maybe gone.

Yes. NK.

QSo the question, which Neil was asking... my question is, can we realize or feel the Absolute, the one you are saying? Because if we can, isn't it in our ego domain area? Like, my ego is saying this is Absolute, Absolute.

NSo once you see that the "I" that we thought was true, all of that's given up. Then the Truth is just... it's very obvious. There's no point of being fooled. You've seen through everything. The entire persona, your memories, all of that came later.

The world came later. You're not claiming anything for yourself when there's no such self. What you're realizing is what is fundamental to Reality. And that is what we call the Self, because it is so close, it is what You are.

You are aware. You can't deny that. That is the "Am." The "Am" is telling you, You're present, You're aware, You're real. And as soon as you give up the individuality of that claim, then it's true.

Yes, we are present. You are aware. You are real. And what you're seeing through this realization is that that's the very core of Reality. Without which nothing exists. And in fact, even if you imagine nothing exists, this is that Nothing.

Because when anything appears, it appears within the Absolute. I don't know if I've actually answered your question, but yes, the Realization can be had. And once it's had, it just blows away any idea of it being wrong or it being egoic, because the ego has been blown away.

QThank you.

QHi, Nabeel. Fine, thank you. How are you?

NGood.

QSo you just said... you don't... Maharaj said you don't experience suffering. Can you elaborate on that? Because I experience... I am aware of some experience, and in some experience there is suffering.

So in my opinion, I can experience suffering. Can you explain a bit deeper?

NYeah, sure. The second part of that is what gives the answer. He says you don't experience suffering. You suffer an experience, good or bad.

What he's trying to do is... Because we like some experiences and dislike others, what you want is more experiences, and good experiences, but none of the bad experiences. That's what every life is trying to do... chase that perfect state with only good experiences for yourself and for the people you love, if you could just get rid of the negative stuff. But he's giving you the direct, actual state of affairs. Every experience is suffering, good or bad.

Because to him, the Absolute is the baseline. The perfection is the Absolute, and every experience can take you higher or lower. It is a form of suffering. So either you say, "Okay, I don't want any experience, give it all up." If you want to give up suffering, it's saying give up everything. Not just the aversion to what you don't want, but the craving also, you have to give up. "I don't want anything."

As you do that, you find it's not you're rejecting life. And okay, in a way you are, but...

QYes, I agree. I'm starting to think that very deeply, in a big way. It's kind of giving up, and I don't like it.

NSo the motivation is not giving up, but becoming rock solid. He described it like... when you realize this, it is as solid as stone.

People would ask him, "What is this state? How can we retain it?" Like, once you realize it, it's solid as anything. Instead of looking at the misery and the suffering, you see all experience is actually suffering. There are just blips of goodness in one life. Most of it is painful, or neutral. It's mostly because we get used to pain and then we think it's normal, but actually most of it is misery.

And what is the baseline? What was at the very beginning is perfection, where this all appeared. That is your true bliss. What is described as bliss is not an elation, a high state, but the very baseline. Which is... what I started with.

If you stay with the question "Who am I?", we're done with it, because all it could ever give us is a name. It's a pointless question. "I" put that aside, because the mind can't answer it. There's nothing identifiable which is "I". You stay with the "Am"... "I Am"... that "Am" turns you away from the world of experience to the truth, the world of truth, the baseline where this all began.

QYeah, but... once I might realize and become stable in this Am-ness, why not jump into life with this standpoint? Why... I mean, this is life. There is a world, there are people. And instead of being completely drawn into it and slammed back and forth... once you have realized it, why not just...

Go into it and do some good in the world for people.

NYeah, you're free to do that. I haven't given up life. There's nothing wrong.

I don't see anything wrong in life's challenges. So it's not saying there's something wrong. It's just saying, look at life in this way. Look at your desires in this way, that they cannot give you the perfection you're looking for. Don't just run away from suffering. That's what he said. That's what I'm explaining it as.

All experience will bring you some pain, but we still go through it for the sake of life. Just because it's life. Otherwise, I could go on a mountain and stay there till the end of my days. I mean, what's the point? I'm here and there are challenges. Okay, let's face them. It's interesting you say it that way. In Zen there are several koans where the master has realized, and now this is the test: Do you live life, or do you go and live alone in the mountains? Actually, to me, neither answer is wrong, but to go and live life is actually the more correct answer. What are you running away from?

QYeah, but for me, even though there are many difficulties, it's still more fun than staying in a mountain and doing nothing. I don't know, I might not be very enlightened in saying this, but I really don't see the point. Maybe because I haven't arrived at this point yet. Maybe once I am stabilized in "I Am," I might give up. Right now, I just enjoy life, good or bad.

NYeah. You're not being asked to give up life.

It's just changing the standpoint, and then with that... Whatever comes, it's fine. Decisions will be made.

QAnd I have another question, if I can. How do you relate intelligence with... I don't even know how to formulate the question.

Sometimes I wonder, when an ego is... let's say a good person is intelligent, and an ego is stupid, it doesn't understand things... How do these two aspects relate to... I would say Beingness? Like, they don't have anything to do with the Absolute, or the standpoint of "I Am." Because his intelligence is... I don't know, I don't know how to say this.

Is there any value to intelligence? Let's say, is there any value to intelligence?

NYeah, life without intelligence would be worse off. Intelligence makes us ask the questions, makes us discover things. Intelligence has value in terms of life. It's not completely separate to the Absolute.

Intelligence depends on Awareness. The real intelligence... the fake one, the fake intelligence, is not actually intelligence. The ones that generate words which we find meaning in. Intelligence is when the words are understood.

When the relationships, associations between concepts are understood, and those concepts apply to real experiences. So intelligence is something very amazing about the mind, and it is what allows us to ask these deeper questions and arrive at the Truth. The Truth is always true, but the realization of Truth requires intelligence.

QIntelligence, because... I hear many times, "You don't actually have to understand this, you just have to be it." But in my life, if I don't understand something, I can't go anywhere. I just get stuck. The most changes in my life were when I really understood something.

If I really understand something, then I can have some... I don't know... some real opening, some real understanding. I think what is valuable, what is important, is to have an understanding of things.

NYeah, I think the same for, in my view, if you just try to ignore the intellect and its arguments against what you want to be true, that's just belief. You're trying to override intellect with faith and belief.

The way through it is you should understand both at the level of the mind, as far as it can go. It can't go to the exact Truth, but it can, at its level, submit to the Truth. Of course, there is... in the mind there's the knowledge that yes, there is this, there's a knowing of the mind. Who knows the mind? You.

So there's two levels. The mind can submit to You, and You then realize the Truth. So there's a harmony between the intellectual understanding and Self-Realization, and just trying to discard it... And just take it on faith, it just ends up being belief.

QThat was very helpful. Thank you, Nabeel. Thank you.

NJay.

QAm I on there? Could you please talk a few minutes or less about free will? The illusion that we have this free will, this idea that we're responsible, responsible for our own sufferings and...

That's my question.

NYeah, sure. So free will is built around the idea that we have some control, at least over this body. But it's a very difficult idea to reconcile with everything you arrive at through science, for example, physics and chemistry.

How can you have control over just one portion of space at a certain point in time? That would be magical. So you start to see the loopholes through modern science. It's very easy to see the problem with this. But it won't go away.

The belief in free will does not go away until you see through the self. Because as long as there's the idea of being an individual conscious thing, then that's you... What it feels like, like "I'm separate, I'm making my decisions, I'm experiencing this." If that illusion falls apart, that I'm not actually a separate conscious thing, then you see the thoughts are just thoughts.

The decisions are also just thought, two thoughts which collide and then there's a decision, and so on. It's all just happening. There's something that we could call Will, but it's not at the level of individual people.

QBut don't you feel like you're still having to make decisions?

NYeah, the feeling of decisions is there. What if you just look at it mindfully? What do you see when a decision is taking place? You're just seeing two kinds of thoughts arise. And then they go up and down, and then the pros and cons, and eventually one wins out.

And your role in all that was simply being aware of it. You were just aware of all of it. How? It feels like if you think in terms of a separate "me" making the decision, it can feel that way.

But you can take out the separate "me" and it still happens the same way. You look at it as a process that happened. The decision was arrived upon in the same way, but there was no central entity in charge which picked one — and that actually is true to what the science is saying as well. So that comes into the question of responsibility.

So, like what Michael was saying, the mind behaves based on what it's learned. Even when Michael had that sense of not being there — Emptiness — he went out, he did his job. This is happening at a level that does not require a self, the individual self. That belief... it's secondary.

It's required for certain kinds of thinking, which may have helped the brain in its struggle to survive, but they're not actually necessary. You can function fine without that. It is less of a hindrance. Mostly this idea of self pops up to cause you anxiety and guilt, because all that is built around the idea of self.

The self is the whipping boy. The brain uses it to run its scenarios, to see what it should have done, what it should not have done, how it should behave in the future. It's just a puppet for all of that. And you can still think along those lines, because there's planning, there's things to do, there's things to learn from.

But if you're not associating with the puppet, and the puppet is being beaten up, it doesn't hurt. It's not real. It's not you. That's a good trick. There's still responsibility, of course, because there's a clear view on ethics, which is to most of humanity still not clear.

Yeah, the ethics become very clear when All is the Self. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, I think let's end there for today. Thank you all for joining.

QThank you. Thank you, Nabeel. Thank you.

Yeah, thank you, Nabeel.