What makes experience possible? | Satsang on the Parabrahman [public version]

NWhat makes experience possible?

At first you might have a word for it. It's Consciousness. Consciousness makes experience possible.

But as you investigate you find out you don't really know what that word means. What is... it's just an idea. There's some field of Consciousness in which experience arises.

What is it?

So if you take the mind, you get a few kind of answers. After it's been humbled, you know, you've been on the search a while, then it finally says, "Oh, I don't know." "I don't know what makes experience possible." But that's not really an answer.

But might say, "It's just the way it is." It's just the way it is. Again, it's a copout.

There is an answer to be arrived upon.

But the usual answers the mind gives are, you know, which are the more common ones — like it'll create a new kind of concept, or there's a greater Reality. This God who created all this, that's what makes Consciousness possible. It's just moving the question a bit.

Or you could go down the materialistic way of explaining it, right? There's these physical processes and they take place and that gives rise to experience. But they're explaining the mechanism of how a specific experience comes to be. It's not explaining why experience appears at all.

So what makes experience possible?

And then you realize, whatever is that, it is present in this moment, here, making this experience possible. Any experience possible, right here.

So now where you need to investigate is quite precise: this very moment.

What is it that's making experience possible?

And you wouldn't find it as an experience or something to be observed. It must be here and very real.

And it's you!

You make experience possible.

Right in this moment, what is it that's making this particular experience possible? That is you.

When the mind appeared this morning, it appeared to you. If you're not there, it can't begin. Experience cannot appear.

That is the Self.

The Self is what makes experience possible. It is the meaning of Conscious-ness or Aware-ness, because that's what you are in any moment.

You are That which is conscious. That which is aware. The Aware...ness.

That is the Self.

And all that's ever happening is experience is arising, and all the mechanisms and all the causes and so on is before the experience arises. It arises spontaneously within the Aware-ness which is you.

If you see it that way, then none of this is about separate selves. It's not that these mechanisms, these bodies, they create separate life forms which are sentient. They're not separate sentient life forms. They're life forms which function and they could produce experiences.

But to whom?

That which makes experience possible is present in every experience as that which is then witnessing the experience. That is then the actual Self.

The problem in the mind is it cannot... it will be stuck on, "But I'm this little thing. I'm this one person, and what this seems to be describing is universal."

But you see, how would the universal present itself in the moment? The universal factor that makes conscious experiences possible, how would it be present in the moment, if not as the Self knowing the experience?

There's no other way. It's just seeing that clearly.

How I often refer to Nisargadatta, he would say you have to worship Consciousness as the God, as everything, all there is, and then it will reveal its secrets to you.

Because after you worship Consciousness as God and you say, "Yes, this is amazing. This is vast. I don't know what this is." All the amazing part is the experience: how deep they are, how vast they are, what they can be like. They're not about you really, right? They're about what's appearing.

So you worship that. But at the end it leaves a little question: "But what am I?"

Because all that is amazing. You know, all of space is contained in Consciousness. I can see the whole universe, so on, so forth, but what am I?

And that's the secret Consciousness then whispers to you: "Well, yes, I am vast, but I depend on You."

The one factor which is just beyond space and time. So you can't say it's vast. It cannot feel great in the same way, you know, because it has no form.

You have no form.

That is the Self, the Absolute Self, prior to Consciousness. But actually also the meaning of Conscious-ness, because That is what is conscious.

Consciousness is used in two ways. The way in which we're talking about the experiences, the streams of consciousness and so on. But there's a Factor which is conscious, and that is the Self, which makes experiences possible.

And that's all the Self ever is.

You're not doing anything when you look at it that way, right? You're just making this possible, as the basis of it all.

And there's no separation. There's no individuality in that. All that is there as part of the body and the mind and so on. It's not something you cut off and remove and so on. You just see through it.

What is the meaning of "I"?

All right. Let's go into Q&A.

Hi, Rachel.

QHi, Nabeel. So what you're saying is the observer, the observed and the observation, it's all one. Am I misunderstanding this?

NYeah, that's right. Those are just ways to split it up, to understand that it's all One, right?

QOkay. So, there's no observer and there's no observed and there's no observation. There's just the happening. And the happening isn't really happening through an individual. It's just unfolding, because there are no individuals.

NYeah. You could talk in those ways, right? I do sometimes. But you eventually see, yes, there's no observer as an individual thing you can identify.

There's no observer. Where is it? There's none.

There's the observation, and the observed is the observation.

So if there's only the observation — or I talk in terms of the knowing, right? Knowing, or the happening. That's all there is that is actually observable.

What is that, and why is it possible?

So to go back, you have to say, why is this possible? If you're fixated on the knowing, on the observation itself, then you're still at that point where it hasn't told you what you are. It hasn't gone back to, what are you then?

And then the mind can flip between, "Oh, but I'm the observer. So that's the observation, I'm the observer." It can flip like that.

But eventually it has to realize, the mind has to say, "I don't know. I don't know the observer, because I am what is being observed."

And in that moment, what is observing?

It's not an individual. It is the basis of observation, knowing the observation.

QSo in every experience there is first Awareness, before there is any unfolding and happening. There's just the Awareness.

NYeah. And we should look at that very directly.

When life began, you must be there first. When you get out of sleep, the mind appears, you are there first.

It's a matter of observation that You are there first.

QThank you.

NThank you. Yes, Paul.

QSorry, my camera isn't working. I've been trying to fix it.

NThat's all right.

QThis question's, I think it's related. It's not that big of a deal, but it's related to this.

Can you explain what Nisargadatta was talking — and I kind of get it but I don't, but I've never been satisfied with the explanations, which are all really confusing — about what he meant by Parabrahman and Brahman, and what's the difference, and the "I am." Because the Parabrahman, you know, I was always thinking it's sort of like the "I" before "I am," I guess. But what is your understanding of it?

NYeah, sure. So, he put that into the mix because it really pushes you to go beyond stopping at, "Oh, Consciousness is all there is."

That part is easy to get to once you, you know, get into spirituality. Consciousness is all there is. But that's not the answer.

So the Parabrahman, to him it's also a concept. He just uses the word to try to push you. Right. But it's to get you to the absolute understanding.

What is the Absolute Self? What is Reality? The ultimate Reality.

And Parabrahman is where you strip away all the assumptions of what Reality must be like have been stripped away, and you see it for what it is, as a fact.

And it's not Consciousness.

Consciousness is when experiences are present, and sometimes they're not present. Sometimes there's no experience. It's a matter of fact. We can try to deny it, and sometimes, you know, we say, "Oh, maybe, I don't know, but there are other experiences going on." But experiences come and go.

So it's a state.

Parabrahman is beyond all states. It's not a state. It is the ultimate Reality.

And he calls it beyond attributes, right? Nirguna Parabrahman. Means there's no attributes. There's nothing to observe, no observer, no time, no space, nothing.

It's the starting point.

If you say the starting point of where the Big Bang takes place, that's it. That's Parabrahman.

How can a human being come to know it? A human being cannot.

But the thing is, like we started with, there's actually no separate self as a human being. The Self is observing the human life form. So if the human life form is raising these questions, which are being observed by the Self, it can point the Self back to what the Self is.

Because everything that's being observed, you can put it in that bucket of Brahman, Consciousness. But where did this emerge?

When you first had the knowledge "I am," what must you be there at that point?

And you realize — and there's a few ways to realize it. One is, it's already knowledge you have. But you can also see it happen, which I believe is what happened with Nisargadatta.

What... How I got to that point is the mind goes blank. There's no time, no space, so there's no way to remember the point. But you see the knowledge "I Am" emerge back. Like the realization, "Oh, I Am."

And it's not in words, and it's not about me, but just existence itself.

The knowledge of existence appears. With it, time starts to tick. Then experience appears. It's kind of consecutive. Some experience appears, and then thoughts appear. So thoughts are much later. And then the idea of Nabeel appears, which is obviously not me, the Self.

And that is the Parabrahman, the starting point which is just beyond space and time.

Even when I call it Awareness, then it becomes wrong. If I say Self, again, it's a bit off, because it's not Self in the sense of an entity.

QThanks. That's great.

I prefaced it by saying it wasn't that important of a thing. It was a pure intellectual thing for me, because I think a lot of this is a language limitation — and what you're able to even talk about with finite language, talking about something that's infinite or outside of language. So in that sense it's not really that important to know. I just was curious, because it bothered me that I couldn't figure out what he meant.

NI think it is important. I think it's not intellectual.

Because for me at least it pushed me beyond where I would have stopped. Where I would have stopped and said, "Yes. Okay. This is the answer."

Because there's a comfortable answer, which is, you know, the hippie answer. And there's the actual answer, which is uncomfortable at first.

QYeah. These intellectual understandings are sometimes helpful for me. So I can see that too. Thanks so much.

NThank you. Naader.

QHi.

NHey.

QSo you get to a point where — like you said in one of your videos — lack interest. Your mind gets convinced that no truth is going to ever come out of desire or thought. So it basically slowly, slowly, slowly gets to that point, and the interest to the thought, or pursuing thought or desire, kind of goes down.

And then it becomes self-obvious that Parabrahman, or the fact that this Awareness beyond Consciousness — that's kind of, to me, it's the gateway to get there. That thing that you said, it pushed you beyond that. Otherwise you would have stopped.

Because it's hard, because giving up attraction of thought and desire, that's the part that — you can get glimpses and so forth. But then, it's not even if you want to get... the mind got to realize. And like you say in other videos, that's the limit of what you can do with the mind. The mind just shuts up and says, "Yeah, yeah, it's not... nothing, you know, I'm being observed." And that's kind of the gateway.

And one thing — I was listening to one of your videos, the Zen one that says Mu.

NYeah.

QI find it really useful. Every time something come, and say Mu. I know we were talking about the dog's Consciousness and all that, but it equally applies to anything. You got to say just right off the bat, "Okay, no. Mu." And it kind of kills it right there, and you don't get to stray, and then you got to work yourself back up and all.

NYeah. Mu. The whole understanding becomes so intuitive. It's just captured in that "Mu!", or "Who?", anything.

But look, the desire that falls away, it's not even desire. It's like an interest in experience, which has grasped from the moment the mind appears and takes over. The idea that, okay, experience is what will bring you satisfaction.

It's like if there's no experience, there's nothing. You've lost everything, right? It's the thing to grab on to, and it's what will give you enlightenment and give you what you want and all that.

And eventually in the search, as it's becoming clearer, you lose the interest in experience itself. You're ready to give it up. That's what I meant, like when my meditations became really useful.

And then you start to understand what is Parabrahman. It's actually not distant, far away, intellectual.

It's the starting point, and it's happening every day.

Every night when the mind goes away, when it comes back, where does it appear?

And your idea of what is desirable, what is perfection, changes. Because when the mind appears — quite easy to observe, everybody goes through it, I believe — when the mind appears, first of all, you don't want it.

You don't want to wake up.

Why don't you want to wake up?

There was no experience. There was nothing there. Experience appears. You should jump at it. "Oh, this is amazing. I want this." That's not how it works.

Why don't you want it?

That is the starting state. Nisargadatta also talks about that being — it sounds like he was in bliss at that point, right?

So, what does bliss mean at that point? If there's no experience, there's no time and space.

It keeps throwing people off who ask about it, because they're looking for that experiential bliss, that perfect state. But the Parabrahman sounds like this desolate nothing. There's nothing there. How can it be bliss?

But look for yourself.

When experience appears, you are in a state of completeness, state of satisfaction, where you want nothing. Nothing is asking anything of you. Nothing is happening. But you are in bliss.

That is bliss.

That is the bliss of sleep we associate with. But it's actually, if there was no experience, no time and space, and you still were there, aware — you go back into this natural state, which is bliss.

The actual bliss, which experience can never fulfill.

And that's how experience plays this game of, it promises to get you there, but it can't. Mind takes up, and yeah, sure, you go through your roles, your responsibilities, you go through all that. But the only moments you feel peace during life and all that is, again, you actually turn away from experience — and the bliss is just there. The peace is just there.

Why? Because it is intrinsic to being aware.

Experience does not give you that. It just takes away from it, because your attention goes into what the experience is like. Which can be joy, which can be pain.

But there's the actual Bliss which the sage realizes. That's what you see on the, you know, truly, the ones who are glowing with it. You can see it. What is that?

And I call it the bliss of sleep seeping into the dream.

It actually happens in dreams sometimes. You feel in the dream, "Oh, it's so peaceful. It's beautiful." It's that bliss being experienced in the dream.

You can experience it during life. All it takes is losing that interest, that promise of, "Oh, experience is all I need, and it's what's going to deliver this."

And when you do it in meditation, it's very effective. Because again, you know, all the meditation instructions say, "Oh, you shouldn't expect something, you shouldn't do this and that." But still, then the idea is there will be some experience — some change in state, some experience which explains something, some insight.

But if you say, "I don't want any of that," the mind shuts down, because you don't want any of that. It's like going to sleep while awake, right? It shuts down.

And when it comes back, if you can notice where it begins, and that is perfection, and that is the Self — then experience cannot give you anything. It's just there. Sure. But you realized what is perfection. Why everything is already perfect.

So we're just taking the scenic route. Fine. There's nice views here.

But there's Home.

There is always Home.

QThank you, Nabeel.

NThe side effect of this is it's quite hard to get out of bed in the morning. Because every time, the mind has to try a few times, you know, to get going. Like, what's worth waking up for?

Hi, Christina.

QHi, Nabeel. I would like to know if it's not possible to be the bliss while there is experience.

NTo be in bliss while there's experience. Yes, it is possible. It's very much possible.

It's when we are happy. What is that?

When you're happy, there's lots of stuff going on, and often there's stuff which would annoy you maybe sometimes going on — but doesn't affect you in that moment, because something has flipped. The attention which would be on the specifics of the experience, you know, what exactly is happening, is not on that.

So of course there's happiness which is more elation, comes and goes and all that. But there is a kind of detachment, like a little bit of distance from being... really grasping experience. And if that is not there, then there's bliss, there's peace, there's happiness.

There's a soft kind of just being at peace.

QYeah. One more question. When the mind stops and there is experience, what happens? How can you do your job without your mind working?

NYou can't. So you can't have the mind stop and continue to function.

So that was just a momentary — you can't even call it a moment, right? When everything disappears. That's why it happened in meditation. It can happen like arising, when the mind comes back from sleep, things like that. You can notice where it begins.

That point is timeless.

Once you know the starting point, you know it's not in time or space. When the mind appears, space and time appear with it, and in it all this stuff happens.

So when all that is happening, yes, the mind is there, all this happening. It doesn't change the basis of the mind.

You arrive at a conclusion which is not arrived at through the mind, but through observing the mind arise. And so that is so conclusive, so fundamental, that then whatever happens in the mind is just secondary.

Yes, it's happening in the mind. It's just Consciousness. It's experiences arising. But you know what is the Self and what is the basis of all this.

And even if really bad things are happening in a dream, and you know, "Oh, it's just a dream," it changes things, right? Exactly like that. It changes it.

QYeah. I ask because in the last Satsang you talked about, "There's no me, there's only you," and I realized that's kind of dangerous. Suddenly during the day, when I had to do something, I felt like on a slippery ground. You understand? I can't express it very well.

NYes. So you're right. To carry out our role in life and so on, there's certain kind of ways of thought processes and so on that need to work, right? We don't want that to break completely.

Because you can see, like some of the sages, like Ramana Maharshi and so on, there was an extreme phase, right? Where they just couldn't function in life. Like he was in a cave for I don't know how long, and so on.

And to me, I want to be able to communicate, to point out the truth, which should be very simple. It should be very straightforward.

I'm not trying to break your minds. They should function the way they are.

But we know the truth. The truth is known.

QAnd when you found out about it, never happened to you? You always could function very well, could always manage to?

NSo there were a few episodes, but they were very short. Like within a meditation, within a few meditations, or just that moment of waking up from sleep. It might drag on a little bit while the mind puts itself back together, but it's not long.

The Realization is in a flash.

However, I think there are cases where the mind cannot come back for a while, a much longer while than in my case. But what is seen is not an experience, and it doesn't require time. So that's why the Truth can be seen in a flash.

And again, it sounds like what I'm describing, you have to go through that point where the mind disappears and appears, and then you get it. But even that is not required. That's what I came to realize later.

Because for a while I thought, "Oh, you can only realize this if you've been through this, if you now understand what Parabrahman means," and so on.

Actually, no.

Because what is making experience possible in this moment is exactly what that reveals. What that moment reveals.

And you can know it while experience is present.

Because what is making experience possible in the moment is present as You, as the actual Self — which is the Parabrahman: no attributes, bliss itself.

It's in you. It is You.

And the only thing it takes is like a little turn inwards. Inward is also a way of speaking, but away from experience.

Take a look. What is it that's conscious?

You are that Conscious-ness.

That's all You are.

And then let the mind do what it needs to do, because your only role is to be aware. You cannot do it any better or worse.

And I've said that a few times. That is a mark of, this is really what you are and what your power is, because you can't do it better or worse. It is just natural to you that you are aware.

And all the better or worse is about the body and the mind, and that's not really under your control.

QOkay. Thank you.

NThank you. Lesley.

QHi. I've just come back from walking the Camino, and I was about halfway through walking when I listened to the Satsang on "There is no me, only you." And it was just thoroughly beautiful.

But as I was going through the exercise of "There is no me, only You," and then pausing, like, just end there — the "You" got replaced with God.

There is no me. There is only God.

And I don't know if that was a... well, that's just what happened. And I walked with that for days. And it changed the perception, because I walk for about six hours a day, and in that walking there is only God. It was just the most exquisite experience.

But at some point this thought, emotion came into being that was, "Well, why am I doing this? Why am I walking? You know, I could be anywhere." And the thought came, "Well, I want to be with God. And the walking is helping me be with God." And the thought came, "Well, I would give up my life to be with God."

And there was just this silence sort of came over me. And this thought came into — I don't know if it was a thought or instruction — "Would you be willing to give up the lie?"

And that just stuck with me for the rest of my walk in the Camino. Like the lie of our conditioning, I suppose. The lie of every day. But as you were saying, it's that drop, that moment where something just happens and it's all clear.

So there's not really a question there, but I just wanted to share with you the magnitude of that — moving from "There's no me, there's only You," there's only God, be with God, give up my life.

You don't have to give up your life, you just have to give up the lie.

Yeah. So, thank you.

NThank you. That's very beautiful.

And yes, it does...

So, when the mind recognizes there's only You, that You is so much more than it always took you to be, right? So, it's not wrong. That's how it goes through that.

It's first God, or the Beloved. Beloved, that's You. "Oh, You were right here."

It goes through that. The mind goes through that, and you are experiencing that take place because You are the Awareness.

So, what is the lie? What was the lie?

The lie was taking You to be anything but That. But God. Anything but Awareness.

The lie is very specific. Only thing to give up is the... that "I" can mean anything else. That "I" can mean a person, a thing, a separate self, or whatever.

If the mind gives that up, then it is with God.

That is being with God. In any moment, anything going on, as long as that idea that "I" means personal self is given up, then the mind is with the Beloved.

What you're describing, that is the... it's hitting you: there's no me. It's giving up the wrong meaning of "I," which you've lived with for so many years, right? That is the conditioning.

And the mind is seeing, "Oh, there's only You."

Because the mind is knowledge. The mind is not a thing in itself. It's just knowledge. It's all these experiences, but there's relationships in there. There's knowledge in there.

And the knowledge speaks to the Awareness, because the knowledge contains this information — that for knowledge to be there, it must be known. Otherwise it's not knowledge. It's nothing, right?

So the mind itself is built around this core belief that it must be known. This is something that is very basic to the mind. Of course it's being known.

It does not know the knower, and it is not the knower. But it has this information: it is being known.

So when I gave that pointer, it's to force the mind to see that there's no me as an entity. There's no actual separate conscious entity here.

But there's You, who is observing what used to be me. But is not me. It's just the experiences arising.

So it's quite overwhelming at times. When the mind looks, says, "Oh, but this is God. This is not..." Like your legs shake. You can't walk anymore maybe for a while.

But then yes, being with God is just living with that knowledge.

What is the Self really?

What is the Self really?

QAnd there is a physical reaction. As those profound insights arise, you know, the body heats up, everything gets quiet, and the vision gets clearer. It's not just an intellectual satisfaction. It's a physical response.

NYeah. Every time some major insight lands in the mind, there's a physical response, right? And this is the biggest possible insight ever to land on the mind.

And it was so basic. It's so earth shaking for the mind. Like it shifts the ground underneath it. Like it's built its own whole idea of the world and self around the idea that there are separate selves. "I'm a separate thing," right? And it's got to protect this separate self and build a life for this separate self, and, "Oh, it's going to die. What should we do?" and so on.

And all that's suddenly gone, and now you know what the Self is.

So yeah, it's overwhelming for a while, but it doesn't stay that way. Because all we doing is we realize. The Realization happens. It hits you, and then it's the obvious Truth after a while.

It's just the obvious Truth.

Why can't I communicate this? Why isn't it so obvious to everyone? And who are these everyone anyway?

Good. I'm glad that worked for you.

That's why I love Rumi. I'm doing videos on Rumi. The way he described it is exactly the journey, the inwards journey. You're looking for the Beloved. What is the Beloved?

And the giving up is so simple. You're not even giving anything up. Only a concept of what was taken to be "I," and then you're with God.

QThank you.

NAivars.

QNabeel.

NHey, nice to see you.

QGood to see you. Started dark here. That's reason why you don't see me. But it's amazing what you are you doing.

So perfect. Perfect.

I would like to ask you to dive a little bit deep in this moment, in exact situation, from perspective whatever you choose, just to dive in this moment be possible. Thank you.

NDive deeper in this moment. What does it take?

The moment is always there. You're always there. Only the experiences are changing. That's all.

The experiences keep changing. And if we give up the idea that the experiences should reach certain stage, some peak — or they should stop being annoying, and you know, shouldn't have certain kind of thoughts and so on. Just give all that up.

Like, it's just experience. It's just arising. Don't take ownership of it. It's just a bit of detachment. It's experience. It's not you doing it.

And you notice what is making this moment possible is the Aware...ness that You are.

Right at this moment, any moment, if you're honest, what are you? What is the one thing you can't say is not your quality?

That is being aware.

And we just return to that. No matter the failings, you know, the same habits repeating. And it's worth trying to change all that. Fine, that's life, that's going on.

But in any moment is the actual Truth of what You are.

All the causes and conditions and things that take place, and then the experience appears. It appears because of You. What You really are.

And that "You" cannot be quantified. We cannot measure. We cannot observe.

It's always just a simple inward turn. Inward just means don't be focused on the experience, and whatever the experience is, let it be. Instead focusing on the truth, like, what is the fact in this moment?

And no matter what experience is arising, it actually contains a knowledge. There's the actual experience, which might be a sensation which feels certain way and so on. But it's also the knowledge "I Am."

That's what the experience says. You Are. You Are.

It communicates it... like it's directly telling You: You are aware, You are here. All of that is contained in every experience.

And so then you see all those instructions of meditating on the "I Am," never leaving it. It seems so hard. "What am I supposed to do?"

Actually every experience is doing that. It is saying You are... here, real, present, aware. All of that is communicated again and again and again.

And only by being stuck on the experiences, what the thoughts are saying and all the old concepts, is any movement from the Truth.

And then what will happen is you'll have more of those in-between kind of moments. The experience might still be there, but there'll be a little pause in attention being on experience only. There'll be a little gap between thoughts.

And that's going deeper in the moment, because the whole Truth is contained in every moment.

All right, John.

QOkay. It's kind of almost like a report from the edge. I feel like I've been to this place of the present moment, and it is a feeling of just Emptiness. Complete Emptiness, as if sort of being from a spot where thoughts come, and witnessing those thoughts.

And I just wanted to reiterate, or just reaffirm, that those experience, they're non-experiences. And I do feel like, you know, I've known this all my life, and I feel like I come back to them more and more frequently. And there's so many different ways for us, I think, to come to those non-experiences. And I just wanted to reaffirm what I'm hearing from so many people.

NYeah. You can call it a non-experience, because the idea was that only experiences can bring you happiness — and experience, you know, there must be some cause and effect, and then you get somewhere, and that's what you wanted.

And what this is showing you is, actually, no. If in any moment you're not interested in experience, you have what you wanted. You're this peace, this satisfaction, and something which is always present.

So there's an overlay... the experience is the overlay —

QI wanted to add one thing to that. It was a really profound moment where I was in meditation, and I was kind of under the guidance of a spiritual leader, and I reported back to him. I said, "There's nothing here. There's nothing."

And it was just this moment of complete... it was bliss, of reporting back to him that there's nothing here. It was almost like it was a surprise to me to have no experience in that moment, and be at such complete peace with that.

NYeah. And there's two ways of "nothing here."

One is really when you can't even say "nothing here," cuz there's nothing.

The other "nothing here" is you notice that what felt so solid — this idea of self, you know, and a world which is physical and real — is not there at all. Is not there at all.

Nothing here... except Reality. You know, what is real.

QThank you.

NKieran.

QHello.

NHello. Hey.

QI was wondering how we are to view the changing manifest Reality. If what we are is a unchanging, transcendent space, is this manifest Reality something more like a dream or an illusion? Or is it just as much what we are as that transcendent space is?

NSure. So if you look at it directly, what is the illusion?

If you hit a wall with your hand, it hurts. You can't say it's an illusion in the sense that, you know, the pain is not there, or the solidity, the feeling is not there.

The illusion is only the idea that there are separate sentient entities, separate conscious things, and a physical world in which they exist.

That's the illusion.

Just that belief in self, which is what you hear again and again in all these teachings, right? Just that idea of self is wrong. It's just so central to a normal mind, a human mind at least, that it's defining the whole world and what you are in it — and everything that's experienced is through that lens.

If you take out that one idea, then actually there's no illusion.

Because what is experienced is Awareness in a certain form. You can't say that form is not present when it is present. And it's not "unreal". It is actually there.

So the manifest and the unmanifest are actually the same Reality.

In a moment of experience, both aspects are present. The manifest is all of the experience, which is Awareness in forms, different kinds of forms. And the unmanifest is You, who have no form in any moment.

You are Awareness in its purest form, which is purely just aware. And then when there's a shape to Awareness, that is the observed aspect, the manifest aspect.

Okay, so that's just direct experience without the idea of a self.

And then if we go into, like, what is the universe itself and what's going on, then in that area, science is a pretty good explanation. It's the best we have, right?

So to me, if yes, there's space and time and all that, all these things are happening, where does that exist? Where would that begin?

It again goes back to the point, the same point beyond time and space, where anything can appear. There's nowhere else for something to appear. Like, there cannot be two starting points where there's no space and time and nothing.

It's only one kind of Nothing, which is the base Reality.

And because it is the same Reality, when all this stuff happens, it can create experiences. Because the base Reality is what is aware.

Again, it's not separate things which exist in the universe and then become conscious — but rather the universe exists itself as a dream.

But not in the way the mind thinks of as a dream. Because, you know, the mind's version of dreams is, "Oh, the dream is fake, and then there's another kind of reality."

But actually the dreams are the expression of Reality, because Reality is entirely subjectivity. It's like pure Awareness. Awareness is not physical. It's pure subjectivity, which means anything is possible. Anything can appear.

When it appears, how does it appear? It appears as space and time, and in it whatever happens.

There can be many levels to a dream. The initial dream can be where the universe appears. In that dream there can be additional dreams, which are each of these life forms being experienced.

But that gets conceptual. So that's why I started with what is the direct experience.

It's both the manifest and the unmanifest, in every moment, present and real.

Don't know if that helps or confuses you more.

QIt does help, but I can't help but still separate sometimes that transcendent what we are from the illusory world.

And it's like the story of Ramana and Nisargadatta. It seems like they spend some time out of this world, in that identity. And I think that in my mind I'm still having trouble not separating the two. But I'm trying just to see how, you know, this is also that.

But what you said, I'll think on that. Thank you.

NThank you. So, one thing I might say is, the idea of a transcendent Reality that only certain sages experienced throws us in the wrong direction often.

So when Sri Ramana Maharshi went through his death experience — see, he's discarding things. He's not reaching a new state. He's actually looking through everything which is not Self in its purest form.

He lies paralyzed on the floor and he says, "Oh, this body will be burnt at the funeral pyre. That's not me. This mind will go. That's not what I am."

The transcendent Self has no attributes other than just, that is what is conscious. That is what is aware.

Nisargadatta talks about Parabrahman, the Absolute. Again, he says there's no experience in the Absolute. Experience starts when the knowledge "I am" appears, which, his way of saying, is the sense of existence.

This experience starts after that. It's not the word kind of knowledge or thought kind of knowledge. Just the sense of existing. It appears, and then experience appears, and before that is the Self.

So if you look at it a bit, you realize that Self cannot be experienced, because that is You.

Anything that can be experienced comes later.

So the transcendent Self is the transcendent Self in any moment, because it cannot be transcended. It's the highest Reality, with no form of its own. It's just Reality in its purest form.

It's just Awareness. Aware...ness.

And right now, what are You?

What are You?

That's the direct, simple insight which lands. When the mind says oh, you cannot be anything other than the Aware...ness which knows it.

The mind is the "it." The manifest.

What is manifesting or appearing, is only knowledge. Nothing physical. It's all kinds of knowledge. Like sensations are knowledge — knowing, if you prefer — intuition, emotion, all of it.

There's only knowledge appearing in a pure subjectivity, which is the Self.

Yes, Kieran.

QI did have another question come up, more about Parabrahman, or the unchanging Reality, having characteristics, or having the characteristic of bliss. I feel like what you're saying intuitively is true, but I'm just trying to understand it from a logical point.

Like, for it to have a characteristic, don't things exist in opposites? And for there to be an experience of it, does there also not have to be an experiencer? Like, how can something unchanging have a characteristic?

NSure. So that is not the bliss like... As the Parabrahman, like, if there's no experience, there's no experience of bliss either.

It's not like the Parabrahman is in an eternal state of bliss. There's no state. There's no time. And there's no experience.

However, when experience appears, that's where I'm saying that's the point you can realize that that was Bliss. There was no bliss being experienced until experience appears as contrast, and you realize, "Oh, that is Bliss."

Nothing that experience can give You will ever match what You already had.

The starting point was already perfect.

And so the ending point, which to the mind used to be so scary, and annihilation, and nothing, becomes Home.

Starting and ending is Home. In between, I call it the scenic route. This is the scenic route we're taking, and we're going back Home.

The Bliss is not experienced, because there's no time, nothing happening. But why it can be called Bliss? It's because it is... it is what the mind desires.

When you want satisfaction, you want to feel complete. Like if you really love someone and you want to be with them — you want to be with them in a way which somehow experience can never really deliver. "I want to be with them forever, together."

That's what you realize that is, that starting point and ending point.

The Parabrahman is that, the wholeness. There's no idea of separation. There's no experience at all.

And it makes sense. See, the mind is going through states, and this is like finding that base state. It makes sense that that should have such a strong affinity to everything that was built later.

I don't know how to explain this. It's like the very definition of what feels natural and true and right. You know this is right. This is right. This is perfection.

But you don't know it while you're in it.

If you start observing, like when you wake up, and you take a few moments — just don't wake up too quickly — and you observe the contortions the mind goes through, you'll see you want to sleep a bit more.

And you see, what am I desiring when I want to sleep a bit more? I'm actually saying, okay, I don't need experience right now.

What was that? What was that before experience? What are you turning towards in that moment?

And if you start observing that, this will start to make a lot more sense.

What is that Natural State which is not dependent on time and space and experience and all that?

What is that?

QSo is it oblivion? Like, is it nothingness?

NIn terms of the mind, yes. If we think in terms of experience and all that follows, it is oblivion. And initially it's very hard for the mind to accept that as being perfect or something desirable.

So like I describe, at one point I had such a strong reaction to all that. Like it's horrifying, as you try to go there with the mind. It's the most terrifying kinds of experiences you can have, if you go in there with that individual identity still intact.

Then it's oblivion. It's you being destroyed. You will cease to exist, and this is just eternal nothingness. That's what it seems like from that angle.

But if you are arising from that — that's why I don't suggest we go in there when we're going to sleep. Because then the identity is intact, and you're going into nothingness, and that identity is falling apart. And that can give you that existential dread and all those kind of experiences.

But when you're waking up, you're already That.

You are the Oblivion. You are the Abyss in which the experience appears.

And as the Abyss, you're quite happy.

That's the part where You notice all that appears later. I'm already the Void. I'm Nothing.

And as Nothing, I'm complete. I have everything. I didn't need anything until all this appeared.

It really flips your world and your world view... the right way up.

QOkay. Thank you.

NThank you. All right. Any last questions or comments?

QYeah. I just wanted — that part, that video that you have about the moon, master pointing at the moon. You say, and then that says, like, any experience, including the bliss, happens on contact. I don't know who I heard it from, Nisargadatta perhaps.

So it's like the whole space is filled with light, and that's like analogy of the bliss in this context. And then only you see the bliss, you see the light, when it's a contact. And the borderline of when exactly, like you're saying, when the awakening — not awakening, the "I am" appears, or about to appear.

NYes.

QYou have another video, Rumi: don't wake up that quickly. Those are really nice. It's exactly that borderline where you can experience.

NYeah. That poem says, "Don't go back to sleep," or that's the translation at least.

So when you wake up, don't wake up and don't go back to sleep. And you hover in that area, you will actually drift between sleep and waking and so on, but you learn the meaning of Bliss.

What is actual happiness? The lasting one, the inner one.

QYeah, that's right.

NEren.

QHello, Nabeel.

NHey.

QI am going to ask about the energy aspect of the awakening. I want to talk about the popular guru's awakening experiences.

Nisargadatta, after awakening, you probably know it, for three years he roams around the India. Three years of too much energy, that he can't stay in one place. You know the story, right? Three years of roaming around the India, smoking, sleeping on the bus station, streets. That three years of traveling in India.

Rumi has four, five months of walking and Sama meditation. Do you know the story?

After I thought about these two gurus, then Buddha came into my mind. Buddha, after awakening, in his mind said, "Let me walk 700 kilometers and find my ascetic friends."

This aspect. What do you think about this too much energy? Walking 700 kilometers to find your friend. Three years of roaming in India, five months of Sama meditation. This kind of experience.

NSure. I like Lesley's experience. See? You do have the energy. When the insight lands, it hits you.

QYes. Is a "Let me walk."

NYeah. It doesn't have to be three years. It doesn't have to be that much.

Look, when it hits you, like I'm saying, it flips your world view upside down. And actually, that's right way up. Of course, it's earth shattering, but it's all happening here. The world actually looks the same.

It's how you deal with that happening.

Now like Nisargadatta, he was on his way to the Himalayas. He was leaving his family behind, and his business broke while he was gone. In the end, some friend turns him back, and he realizes, "Oh, actually this is not the way to deal with this." And he goes back, and he's again a shopkeeper for a while, right?

QHow long roamed around India?

NI don't know exactly how long, but look, what I'm saying...

QTwo years. Really, two years of smoking and walking around. Really. And smoking, like...

NYeah, he was chain smoker wasn't he?

QYes, smoking.

NSo sure, these things happen, but they're the side effects. And how each mind deals with it is based on how that mind is made up. Because each mind has its own characteristics because of the causes and conditions.

The focus I always bring back to is the actual truth. What is the truth that you realize? Can you realize that?

And the rest is just side effects.

And sure, when insight hits you, even in normal life, you suddenly realize something, it's like, "Oh." Stunned silence. You start to hear that ting in the ear.

QNabeel, I want to talk and ask about the physiological effects. Really, there is physiological change of sleep to awakening. There is that getting out of experience, out of body. Something happens in meditation and you kind of, like, die, really. It's like awakening is an experience of death. Can we say this? Out of death.

NSo what was that? Sorry.

QThe experience of death. Death.

NDeath. Yeah. Well, death is when there's no experience. That's death to me.

The experience that was most revealing in my case was the end of experience. There was no experience. There was no "I." There was no sense of time.

And what I then experienced, I would call it birth.

Because death you can't experience. There's no experience. You give your experience up till the point.

QDeath is birth. Life is death. Death is birth. It's like when you die you probably [unclear]. Death is birth. Birth is death. A little dark. I call Nirvana, that is a little bit dark. It's birth, actually.

NBut what I call birth actually destroyed the concept of birth, because it revealed what "birth" actually is.

And it's only just the sense of existence appearing, and experience appearing. Nothing gets created. It's just experience begins, and with the time and space and everything. And then in that there can be a sense of identity, and "This is what I think I am." Those are just thoughts.

And that is birth.

Birth is just the experience appearing out of the blue, out of nothing, out of what is actually already there: the Awareness.

And so nothing is ever born.

And there's no death, because death is just experience pausing.

QDeath is nothing.

Thank you.

NAll right, I think let's end there for today. Thank you all for joining.

QThank you. Thank you, Nabeel. Thank you.